Podstawową zasadą jest założenie, że Klient BEZWZGLĘDNIE ma zawsze rację !
Czy aby jednak na pewno ?
Czy gdybyśmy sie trzymali tej zasady to jakiejkolwiek Klientce wchodzącej do sklepu z brafittingiem udałoby się dobrać stanik ?
No bo przecież Pani przyszła w 75B i WIE co nosi a jak wiadomo - Klient ma zawsze......
Czy gdybyśmy ślepo hołdowały tej zasadzie to udałoby się komukolwiek dobrać rozmiar prawidłowo bo przecież Klient ma zawsze....?...
A już zwłaszcza Klient - Kobieta ma zawsze rację co do prawidłowości swojego rozmiaru stanika a my tu Jej mówimy, że nie, dobieramy coś zupełnie innego i wszystko jest cacy.
I jeśli mam przyjemność osobiście dobierać staniki na jakichś spotkaniach w sklepach to jest to dużo łatwiejsze a i satysfakcja z nowo nawróconej "piersi" ogromna
Jak jednak przekonać Klientkę zdalnie, na odległość że jej metoda doboru stanika nie jest prawidłowa ?
Jak tego dokonać zwłaszcza przy barierze językowej ?
Jak - gdy ta osoba jest "uświadomiona" przez inne, nieprawidłowo ostanikowane Blogerki ?
Czy jeśli 100 osób powie, że białe jest czarne to ono, to białe rzeczywiście będzie czarne ?
Ale do rzeczy
Spór się toczy o ... ramiączka
Właściwie problem ramiączkowy jest wynikiem nieprawidłowego doboru stanika ale jest to jakoby największa bolączka moich anglojęzycznych klientek
Jak do tego doszło ? Ano zaczęłam dostawać błagalne maile by produkować mniejsze obwody niż oferowane w sklepie.
...że tylko ja, że jestem jedynym ratunkiem itd, itp...
Znacie mnie i wiecie : jest potrzeba - działać trzeba !
Kobieta chce, Kobieta dostanie !
Bo kto, jak nie ja ?...
No tylko JA !
:/
A trzeba się było palnąć w ten głupi łeb i nie dać wkręcić w takie coś !
Na naprawdę ... myślał by kto że się Matka Teresa od staników znalazła...
No ale ... stało się i zaczęliśmy szyć na specjalne zamówienia rozmiary niestandardowe.
Najpierw - 60 - no cóż, możliwe, że są takie szczupłe, znaczy szczuplejsze niż my, słowianki .
Potem - 55 -bo niby 60tki jeżdżą po plecach (???)
a następnie - 50 - Azjatki = po nazwiskach widać było a wiadomo, że drobniejsze i to sporo od nas ,
....a nawet znalazła się jedna co to poprosiła o obwód - uwaga -
45 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!- no tego to już nie zrobiłam "bo taka głupia to ja już nie jestem... może głupia ale żeby taka ...to już nie ! "
Żarty żartami ale prawda jest taka, że tych niestandardowych to się porobiło całkiem sporo i żeby była jasność - zawsze się pytaliśmy czy aby na pewno Pani jest aż tak szczupła ale Panie twierdziły, że tak a wręcz były oburzone natarczywością z naszej strony bo przecież one WIEDZĄ co chcą kupić i w czym im dobrze ....
...że też mi się już wtedy nie zapaliła lampka alarmowa w tym pustym łbie.....
Czasem dostawaliśmy maile ze zdjęciami i tłumaczyliśmy, że stanik ma za duże michy i za ciasny obwód ale to nie docierało do delikwentek z uporem maniaka twierdzących, że miski są ok tylko obwój za luźny ...
i tak to trwały czasem te przepychanki - my swoje , One swoje ....a że Klient ma zawsze.... więc nie wnikaliśmy głębiej - chcesz to masz, wszak Klient nasz Pan ... a nawet PANI !
Aż tu ostatnio ... mleko się wylało .... okazało się, że na mojej anglojęzycznej stronie na FB ukazało się zdjęcie Klientki w CHP Maku z przerobionymi ramiączkami .
Rezolutna Dziewczyna przesunęła ramiączka bliżej środka miski o jakieś 3-4cm i - ALLELUJA - stanik nareszcie jest ok a nawet WSPANIAŁY !!!! :O
Ło matko i córko.... toż to się zrobił full cup.... michy sięgnęły obojczyka.... i co gorsza - ramiączka nawet nie zdeformowały górnej krawędzi misek !
MASAKRA !!!!!!!!!!
No , myślę sobie, Michalak, jakbyś se w dobrym rozmiarze stanika zrobiła taki myk z ramiączkami to by ci krawędź miski przerżnęła cycki na pół ....a tu, kurde, nic, no nic - rozumiecie ?... NIIIIIIIIIIIC się takiego nie stało !!!!!!
Czemu ?
Ano temu, że ten stanik był od razu źle dobrany
Ciasny obwód pociągnął miski a co za tym idzie i ramiączka pod pachy . Miski zaczęły częściowo robić za obwód.
By dopasować za dużą miskę Dziewczyna podciągnęła ramiączka jeszcze bardziej co spowodowało odcinanie rąk ale nie zniwelowało i tak lekkiego odstawania misek, które odstawały tym bardziej im bardziej osoba ruszała ramionami.
Stąd już był tylko krok do słusznej skądinąd decyzji chlaśnięcia ramiączek !
Przesunięcie ramiączek dociągnęło za dużą miskę lepiej i zapobiegło amputacji kończyn górnych ;)
No i wnioski nasunęły się same - RAMIĄCZKA SĄ ŹLE WSZYTE PRZEZ PRODUCENTA - znaczy mnie ....
I nie pomogły tłumaczenia .... PANIE WIEDZĄ LEPIEJ !!!!!!!!!
Zatem poniżej przedstawiam krótką historyjkę obrazkową dla zobrazowania w/w sytuacji
Oto Modelka w słusznym rozmiarze - 70KK
Pierwsze wrażenia wizualne - widać sam stanik biust jest całkiem schowany
No, ale jak michy robią za obwód to nie ma się co dziwić że takie są rozbieżności między biustem a elementami nośnymi czyli fiszbinami
A teraz pokażę jak wygląd ta sama Modelka w prawidłowo dobranym staniku
97cm luźno mierzone
 |
| A poniżej widok z góry - apetycznie, prawda ? |
z tyłu można odciągnać prawie tyle samo co w tym ciasnym 70
Reasumując
Można nosić staniki ciasne, można nosić staniki z za dużymi miskami, wszystko można - tylko po co ?
Co jest ładnego w niewiarygodnie wielkich michach zakrywających prawie cały dekolt ?
Celowo wybrałam do zobrazowania problemu taki wielki stanik
Gdybym po przeliczeniu 70KK doszła do obwodu 90 - jaki potrzebuje Modelka to uzyskałabym rozmiar 90HH czyli większy od prawidłowego rozmiaru o 5rozmiarów .
Rozumiecie - aż 5 misek większy niż potrzeba.
Gdybyśmy podążały Waszymi metodami doboru stanika doszłybyśmy do takich rezultatów jakie widac w pierwszej części tej opowiastki
W efekcie końcowym Modelka cierpiałaby niemiłosiernie ściskana masakrycznie ciasnym obwodem a jej biust i tak nie miałby odpowiedniego wsparcia i pewnie przyczyny szukałaby w zbyt luźnym obwodzie (sic!)
Jeśli to nie jest Was w stanie przekonać to już chyba nic nie jest
No cóż ... można konia doprowadzić do wodopoju jednak nie można go zmusić do picia ....
Wasza forever
Ewa
Pani Ewo, kocham Panią!
OdpowiedzUsuńSylwia
Unless your 60 bands stretch to 60 (NOT 70!!), I refuse to believe that I'm sizing myself wrong. You're going to loose a ton of customers over this close-minded and insulting attitude.
OdpowiedzUsuńThis is Poland though. People are rude, narrow-minded, ignorant, deceitful, spiteful...the list goes on. They're completely oblivious to the world around them and they think they're always right. For anyone with half a brain, I'd suggest staying away from Polish businesses.
UsuńWell... every business in every country have their own bad sides. I think that this post was ment for those people who thinkst that client are always right ;) just that :)
UsuńMiło mi ;)
OdpowiedzUsuńThank you for sharing your view on all of this - I can see why you find some of this so frustrating. Just one thing, though...I can't help but feel that the 70KK/90F comparison is hugely misleading. UK fitting methods would probably put the model in a 80GG/85G - a tighter band and slightly bigger cup, yes, but nothing like a 70KK. Even so, if the model is comfortable in a 90 band, UK fitters would not insist she size down - personal preference is as important as calculated size, whether for a tighter or looser band.
OdpowiedzUsuńIf this is actually how you think we're wearing our bras, then it's no wonder you aren't understanding the described fit issue.
Nie do końca
OdpowiedzUsuńZaniżając obwód o rozmiar Klientki przeskakują o dwie miski w górę czyli
90F - 85G - 80H - 75J - 70K czyli pokazywany stanik ma tylko o jedna miskę większy rozmiar niż to jest propagowane.
But it is 2 band sizes smaller than what many of the UK buyers would probably put her in - she would have been put in an 80band by the fitting methods you are talking out against.
UsuńI've been following the discussion on facebook and I must say that while I accept that people might not agree with you, some of them were expressing their opinion in such a rude manner that it just put me off the discussion.
OdpowiedzUsuńConcerning the straps: I own 2 E.M. bras in 55FF (cups too small) and 55G (cups fit great) and the straps are exactly in the same place as Panache and Curvy Kate bras, which is not under my armpits. I do use my E.M. bras with an extender because in UK brands 28 is too big in the back so I just ordered a smaller band. Would I still like bras with straps closer together? Yes, not all of them, but some, for a simple reason: I have sensitive skin so wearing bras everyday with the straps falling in the exact same place is starting to leave some pigmentation on my skin in that area, therefore I would like to have bras with straps placed differently so I could switch them and not have the straps in the same place all the time. That being said PL Onyx comfort straps are lovely, and I think if all bras had padded straps I would not have this problem anymore.
P.S.: would love to visit Poland and be fitted by you!
Jeśli dobrze zrozumiała piszesz, że w moich stanikach masz ślady po fiszbinach tam, gdzie w innych markach . I to jest złe!
UsuńTo jest właśnie bardzo, bardzo złe !!!
Wiem bo widziałam na dziewczynach staniki które miały fiszbiny zaczynające się na plecach!! ale w tych stanikach ramiączka nie były tak mocno przesunięte pod pachy bo takie miał producent założenia, taka była jego konstrukcja polegająca na przekonaniu, że kobieta mająca taki wielki biust powinna go chować pod pachami a nie eksponować.
Przesunięcie fiszbiny daleko w tył pozwala na rozsmarowanie piersi po całej klatce piersiowej!
Moje założenia są inne - biust ma być wyeksponowany i zdecydowanie z przodu a do takiego czegoś jest potrzebna fiszbina tuż za linią piersi a nie daleko w tyle .
Też bym chciała Ci osobiście dobrać rozmiar.
Uważam, że wiele problemów między nami wynika właśnie z niedomówień, i braku osobistego kontaktu.
Ana pisze o ramiączkach - ma delikatną skórę i byłoby fajnie mieć staniki z ramiączkami w różnych miejscach.
UsuńPo mojemu to ona mowila o ramaczkach a nie fiszbinach
UsuńEven at a 70 band (which anyone can see is much too tight for the model), I doubt she would be fitted into anything bigger than a 70HH. I am not sure if it is different in Poland, but in the UK we usually try just one cup up for each band down.
OdpowiedzUsuńHere, we would try 85G - 80GG - 75H - 70HH, and IF the cup is too small, THEN you would try a 70J or bigger. But, as I said, nobody would ever put this model in a 70 band.
You said 90F - 85G - 80H - 75J - 70K. If you did try an 85G, possibly a 80H, you might be closer to how the model would be fitted in the UK. As it is, I don't understand the need for the post.
I think this is an excellent photo story. I mean, if the problem is that people are in the wrong size, this solution makes sense. I do think this probably applies to the alteration situation presented on FussyBusty.
OdpowiedzUsuńOne thing I see as a problem with this photo story, is that EM is on Facebook always promoting CurvyWordy's reviews. CurvyWordy loves EM bras, and she wears them in the way that you say is wrong: they come up very high and she seems to have a lot of empty space in the outer side of the cup. If she is wearing the wrong size bra by EM standards, then why promote her reviews?
Brasandbodyimage, on the other hand, seems to be fitted to your specs. But she's wearing a 70 band.
Also unfortunately, this doesn't address the problems people are having with the bands; if the band is too loose, what are they to do? I might suggest that if the smaller band size feels best, sizing down in cup is a possible solution. Instead of telling people that they need a bigger band, why not tell them that they need a smaller cup? If the band is comfortable, wouldn't a smaller cup solve the problem? It would also help if EM bands were more consistent in size.
I also think that you might retain more customers if you approached this in a pro-active, educational way, by offering more info about fitting. Most people think that your fitting chart and fitting advice are mysterious or a joke. Your bras are notoriously hard to get the right fit and shipping issues make that even more troublesome. Your size chart put me in a 38GG when in I actually fit into a 32GG in the same bras. But when I sent you a photo of the bra cup gaping all around my breast, who ever was answering emails said it looked like a good fit.
Ależ ... mówimy/ piszemy widząc takie zdjęcia , że jest to kombinacja dwóch złych parametrów czyli za ciasny obwód i za duża miska
UsuńI właśnie na to złoszczą się Klientki!
Klientki nie dopuszczają myśli, że mogły dobrać sobie za duże w miskach staniki.
Zauważ, że na Waszych forach gdy osoba pokazuje "luźny"stanik przeważnie doradza się jej by wzięła mniejszy obwód a nie mniejszą miskę!
W moich stanikach fiszbiny powinny być tuż za krągłością piersi a nie kilka centymetrów dalej czy prawie na plecach jak to widziałam na jednym ze zdjęć przy dyskusji na FB
By this logic my socks are all too small because they leave red marks. And my underpants. And my stockings. And my tights, even though I get a size bigger than I should anyway.
OdpowiedzUsuńI must also agree with everyone else who objects to putting this model in a 70 band. Also, the strap problem really becomes an issue for slender women who need smaller than 70 bands.
As you didn't touch this topic and it has many people confused... Have you discontinued smaller band sizes forever?
Nie n ie musisz nosić 70, możesz potrzebować obwodu- 65 czy mniejszego.
UsuńMożesz nawet nosić staniki nadal tak jak dotychczas ale nie zarzucaj mi błędów w konstrukcji jeśli widzę , że stanik jest źle dobrany
Nie będę przenosiła ramiączek w przód bo jeśli kupi taki stanik Klientka mająca RZECZYWISTY rozmiar z metki to wtedy ten stanik będzie miał dla niej złą konstrukcję.
Małe obwody nie powrócą do oferty dopóki nie wypracujemy pewnego kompromisu.
Nie podoba mi się, że za swoje złe wybory obwiniacie mnie.
Dlaczego nie kupujecie butów o trzy rozmiary za ciasnych ale za to z bardzo szerokimi cholewkami ?
I used to wear the size your calculator suggested. I am from Estonia, we have the same standard fit guide as Poland. I got back aches, the band rode up, my breasts weren't contained. I am 10 times more comfortable in my "too tight" bras. I'm not going to buy shoes three sizes too big :)
UsuńI disagree. Ewa isn't saying that if a bra leaves marks, it is a bad fit. In the photo she set up, the wires are a few inches away from the breast, that is why she is pointing to the marks, to demonstrate the position of the wires.
UsuńWell, if I have to choose between backache and an underwire being 0.5cm too wide for me I choose the 0.5cm too wide underwire. It becomes pretty a non-issue if I can be without pain.
Usuń0,5cm is not the problem. This is about breast shape, cup shape and more details about bras. Problem is when the wire is several cm too wide (3? more?). Then it is about wrong size.
UsuńFirst of all, you have to understand there is a difference in how the Polish and English bra fitting communities measure a "tight" measurement:
OdpowiedzUsuń* In the Polish community, a "tight" measurement is as close as you can measure your ribcage. Fully exhaled, pulling hard on the tape, maybe even getting a friend to help pull tight.
* In the English community, a "tight" measurement is only as tight as you want your bra to be.
Using the Polish method, I can compress my ribcage to ~58 cm. Using the English method, I get ~67cm. The first time I bought an EM bra, I used my tight ENGLISH measurement and the calculator gave me a 65 band, which rode up to my shoulder blades and put too much pressure on my shoulders. That went away when I sized down to a 60 band - only later did I find out that using the Polish method, my size is 60 to begin with.
YES, my bras leave red marks, but so do my pillows at night. When I wore looser bands, I still got red marks, yet I also had very bad back pain. When I sized down in the band, the back pain went away.
In the English community, we measure multiple levels of tightness to determine how compressible the woman is. For example, I measure 26" as tight as possible (the "Polish" way that you referred to) and 27" with the tape) snug but not digging in at all. I wear a 28 band because I'm not very compressible so wearing something that measures the same as my ribcage would hurt.
UsuńSome women measure 33" as tight as possible and 36" snugly. We would probably recommend she wear a 34 band because she is more compressible.
It's impossible to measure "as tight as you want your bra to be" because tape measures don't stretch at all when the bra band will.
I see you've been to Poland and watched multiple girls being fitted? Oh wait... you obviously havent' because that's a load of bull you just wrote.
UsuńHow we measure ourselves in Poland is:
1. We take off our bras, because you have to measure your ribcage, not the bra.
2. You stand straight, place the tape under your boobs, paralell to the ground.
3. You breathe out (normally, not full exhale) and pull the tape to the point where it doesn't hurt you, but it's really tight. Yet you still can breathe (not like in those bras that were linked on FB).
And that's the "Polish" way of measuring yourself. It has been that way for a while now - just when we realized that the UK way of downsizing the band by even 20cm is wrong.
I measure ~30,7in tight (the proper "Polish" way, not the BS you described) and ~32,7in loose. And I wear a 75 bra, because I like to breathe and not squeeze myself into bands that are too small.
1. Yes, of course.
Usuń2. Same here
3. Keyword "exhale". When measuring a tight measurement (before reading about the Polish method) I was not exhaling at all. In fact, I measured (tight) on the inhale).
Nobody I know of downsizes a band by 20 cm. That is obviously wrong. People downsize 5 - 10 cm, from the method I described.
Measuring as tight as possible while exhaling fully, I get 58 cm.
Measuring as tight as possible while exhaling normally, I get 62 cm.
Measuring what I considered "tight", on a normal inhale, is 67 cm
Measuring loose (fully inhaled, as loose as I can without the tape dropping), I get 78 cm.
I was one of the people who posted in that thread. I will agree that some of those cups looked obviously distorted, but I assure you that my underwires are not the slightest bit distorted, and I breathe quite comfortably in a 60 band (though I prefer the less stretchy feeling of a 55 worn with a full extender - same tightness but digs in less)
I did not write that you should exhale fully. What we do is just breathe out as we normally do (not exhale like at a check-up at a doctor's).
UsuńAnd okay, you write that you get a loose measurement of 78cm and a tight (but inhaled) 67cm. And on bratabase you write that you feel best in 60 (or 55 w/extender) bands? I have 3 70 band bras (waiting for me to lose some weight) and they are:
1. Cieluś PL - 61cm without expanding, 74cm expanded to the point where the wires remain unchanged.
2. Bella HP - 59/73.
3. Garden PL - 59/74.
So probably the 60 and 55 bands would be way smaller, right? And you're telling me that (even if they are just 5cm smaller) you want to breathe in a bra that expands only to less than 70cm without any damage to the construction? Because if you expand it further, the wire starts to bend and lose its "natural" curve...
May I ask when you bought your bras? I have heard that EM band used to be tighter, and your measurements on those bras do not seem to be 10 cm larger than mine. Ideally, I am looking for an unstretched/stretched measurement around 60/70, I honestly don't care what the tag says, I've been going by trial and error.
Usuń65G CHP Cappuccino - 59(unstretched)/75(stretched without deforming cups). Rode up, straps too short, cups fit at first but then I outgrew them.
60H PL Stalowka - 57 (unstretched) - 71(stretched as far as I can before deforming cups. Fits comfortably for a few hours but the strong elastics make it uncomfortable after a while. Rides up if I have even one hook on an extender. Cups beginning to overflow but not very noticeable (based on Ewa's suggestions, she might consider this a good fit in the cups)
CHP Brzoswinka (labelled 65GG but according to Bratabase measurements, fits more like a loose 55HH or tight 60H in the same model) - 54/66(without extender) - 59/72(with extender). Super comfortable worn with extender - I've even been known to fall asleep in it.
I bought those bras before those you own were released. And I'd say that Cieluś and Bella are rather on the tight side, but I also own newer bras (Milady, Porcelanka, Trefl) and I actually don't see much difference in the tightness. The 70s I've worn when I had 4cm less UB than now and now I wear 75s.
UsuńYour CHPs have cups that are too big for you (or at least they look like that). Stalówka on the other hand is too small in the cups (or it seems so). Maybe if you replaced the wires with some less elastic ones (and more narrow) - you'd see that Stalówka would be better fitting (no bulging as shown on bratabase) and the CHPs would seem half empty ;)
I should take some more descriptive pictures of the Brzoswinka - a few people have said it looks too big, or that it is "too full coverage" and that is definitely the opposite of true in real life (I had a few people, including a pro fitter, check me to be sure. There was initially some gapping (shown in the pictures) caused by the cup collapsing under the weight of my dense, projected boobs, but that went away totally when I moved the straps, and it is definitely half-cup coverage (any less coverage and I would be flashing my nipples, it already shows the edge of my aureola). Also, there have been some claims that the cups only look full because they are distorted, but they're in their original position (no S or diagonal curve on the side) and they line up pretty perfectly with the edge of my boob.
UsuńI do not own the Cappuccino anymore - it fit well in the cups (if not the band) when I got it, but then I grew over a cupsize and resold it.
I find it interesting that you think the Stalowka looks small in the pictures. It is definitely small now, but those pictures are from when I was a size smaller, and while there is bulging now, I didn't notice any then. There might be a hint of wire distortion in the Stalowka but not much - I will however agree that I likely do not have quite the right shape for the PL style overall (insufficient projection at the bottom, too much up top)
Sorry, it was late yesterday and I wrote that wrong - the CHPs actually looked too small and Stalowka - too big (only in the cup, because here the band looks great).
UsuńIt sounds like measurement methods aside, we have more in common than originally thought :) I agree than in the pictures, the Stalowka is a little too big in the cups (this was when I was a different size) and that the band is about right (maybe even a little too tight).
UsuńBrafitterki angielski nigdy by nie umieścić, że kobiety w 70. Myślę, że są zdezorientowani co do sposobu ich pomiaru działa.
OdpowiedzUsuńPrzepraszam ale nie rozumiem co napisałaś :(
UsuńI translate from Serbian to Polish, sorry ! English brafitter specialists would not put the woman in a band 70. They would put her in band 80. I think you might be confused how their measuring system works.
UsuńSpecjaliści może i tak ale ona sama przy udziale innych Kobiet próbowałaby raczej z obwodem 75.
UsuńTen przykład jest celowo przerysowany by zobrazować problem
Ale, uwierz, Kobiety zamawiające staniki o obwodach 55 mające realnie, ciasno mierzone 75 wcale nie są rzadkością....
I think that by exaggerating the problem, though, it is unfortunately coming across as insulting. I think it would be more effective to show the issues if it were a straight comparison of English vs Polish sizing methods.
UsuńNajbardziej mnie męczy nie to, że mnie o coś obwiniacie, tylko, że siebie przy tym krzywdzicie !
OdpowiedzUsuńNajlepiej by było pojechać do Was i pokazać jak to według mnie powinno wyglądać
Myślę, że wiele by się wtedy mogło wyjaśnić ...
Avocado and Comexim are going to be rejoicing. You've really tanked your reputation with the English bra-fitting community.
OdpowiedzUsuńNever, ever insult your customers publicly, even if you think they're wrong.
hmmm... nie ma to jak konstruktywny głos w dyskusji .... GRATULUJĘ !
UsuńLepiej powiadomic Avocado i Comexim zeby wprowadzily 60 i 55 bezzwrotne bo pewnie wyladuja z powrotem bo beda za ciasne.
UsuńI typed a comment before, and it isn't showing up, so I'm going to say again:
OdpowiedzUsuńAlthough I see what you are saying, British/American fitting methods would not put that woman in a 70/32 band, but more likely an 80/36 or even 85/38 band. Also, wasn't the strap issue mostly for women in the 60-65 band range with 65-75 cm torsos? A woman of around this size with large breasts would have been the most informative model to use.
Aside from that, I have a question: this model measures 97 cm loose and 92 tight and you put her in a 90 band. But I measure 68 cm loose and 63 tight, and you say my 60 bands are much too tight? Why does the trend not follow?
Thanks for taking the time to write a post about this!
Dear obsessedwithbreasts,
UsuńThe diffrence between band size 90 and band size 60-70 is in most cases that slim girls cannot downsize band sizes, as they cannot be squezeed so much. The reason is for instance - I have 83/79 and can wear effuniaks band 80 in plunges and 75 in CH as most CH are looser than plunges.
And I have not only skin, but simply more fat that average girl with band size 65-70. and Ewa makes tighter bands - than british companies.
I haven't see you in my life, so I cannot say - you are beautifully slim and have less fat than me and should wear this or this band size.
I simply say - that I have seen some of the photos on FB of which EWa is talking about and some may be a case of too tight bands. Not all women should wear so tight bras. We should feel comfy in them.
Before brafitting academy I also thought yes slim girls in any band size have the same rules. And they simply don't.
Most of them need even tight 75 if they are 73 to feel comfy.
The best is to compare, and then to decide. And I also know that through Internet it's not easy.
I should have said "cannot downsize so much", as some can, some shouldn't.
UsuńI will say with English bra-fitting we do often tell slimmer women they may be more comfortable a size up. If somebody measured 28 inches very tight and 29 inches snug, we would probably recommend a 30 band because there is less fat.
UsuńMomi założeniem konstrukcyjnym jest produkowanie staników na realne obwody
OdpowiedzUsuńZobacz, że 92 cm mierzone "ciasno" mają jednak luz - widać na zdjęciach. Miarka nie wżyna się w ciała Modelki.
Czasem potrzebne jest zaniżenie rozmiaru o jeden obwód, czasem nawet o dwa jeśli kobieta ma miękkie, plastyczne ciało ale wtedy tym bardziej potrzeba mniejszej miski bo jak ma miękką tkankę wokół żeber to i piersi też nie są bardziej twarde czyli w efekcie końcowym proporcje zostaną zachowane i ramiączka/fiszbiny pozostaną tam, gdzie powinny.
Ja miałam pod biustem mierzone ciasno - 78 i nosiłam rozmiar 75FF .
Teraz nieco schudłam i mam obwód pod biustem 75 ale zmieniła mi się konsystencja piersi i teraz noszę nadal stanik z obwodem 75 ale miskę F
Mierzyłam 70G i ramiączka w tym rozmiarze próbowały mi odciąć ręce.
Jeśli masz ciasno mierzone 63 to wg mnie powinnaś nosić staniki z obwodem 65 a nie 60
Effuniaku, jesteś boski.
OdpowiedzUsuńCo byśmy bez Ciebie zrobiły?
Skoro na miejscu najlepiej rozwiązać problemy to kiedy możemy spodziewać się wizyty w Szczecinie, ewentualnie Poznaniu?
Lidka
Kocham Cię Effuś :) Toż to normalnie jak krucjata, ale wiele nie da się konwertować, tylko będą poszukiwać "swojej" prawdy :( Będziemy mieć więcej Venus z Milo ..... bez rąk ;)Agata S.
OdpowiedzUsuńdopisek: no Poznań czeka cały czas, wysłałam na FB wiadomość dawno temu.. Agata S.
OdpowiedzUsuńAgain Ewa you are saying you are right, you put the model in the very very wrong bra and used the wrong model. Also you never addressed that you do not scale the wires of your bras, even though you should understand that a 55 and an 80cm band will have different widths of the body.
OdpowiedzUsuńThis whole thing has just made it eve more clear why I am never buying anything from your company again.
bad customer service, bad fitting advice and straps and also wires that dig in.
Firstly I would like to say that I am not your customer - I've got a few of your bras, some fit better than others, but generally I prefer the fit, shape and quality of the big UK brands. That's not in any way a reflection on your product, just a personal preference.
OdpowiedzUsuńHowever I find it puzzling that a small business owner who wants to grow her customer base goes about it by actively alienating her existing and prospective customers. It makes poor business sense from where I am standing. But maybe business rules and ethics are different in Poland too? Much like the bra measurements it appears...
Znakomita notka, Effuniaku. Doskonale pokazuje problem. Teraz napiszę po angielsku, ale gdybyś potrzebowała tłumaczenia, to daj znać ;)
OdpowiedzUsuńDear American and British friends ;) It's not that important, which model Ewa chose. It's excactly the same problem I saw on your Reddit Channel, on your blogs and on FB - a lot of too tight bands and much, much too big cups. There were only few girls, who had serious problem due to incompatibility, most of you has this problem at their own request.
Just think about it - in Poland there is a lot of woman, who are pleased with Ewa's bras, we don't have such problems, even the slim and busty girls. Of course, there is a group of women incompatible with EM bras, but the EM bras are not bad designed, but bras are just not for them. There's not even ONE bra in whole world, which would fit everyone.
I used to work as a brafitter for a while, I've seen plenty of woman, I can't even tell how many. In that group there were slim girls, curvy girls, busty girls, girls with really small breasts. I barely see few girls, who may need EM 60 band. Maybe 5. Maybe 7. 15 at most. Few girls, that they measurment underbust was 63 cm or less. Girls with 64 or more always wanted 65 band, or even 70 because of tightness. More experienced brafitters would agree with that.
That's why I can't believe, that all of you have the problem because of design, not because of bad sizing. Maybe some of you, but not all.
Ewa didn't insult you, she just show the truth. Not always customer is right.
And one more - Lobby was at the same point with British bras few years ago. Too tight bands and too big cups. We moved on, we learn a lot since that time, manufacturers also lear a lot and bras are much better now. You may use our experience and try to change way of thinking.
Many brafitters in my experience (Bravissimo being the decent fitters they are have not tried it) try to fit people into bras that they have. So they say, look it fits in a 65cm and if the woman does not know any better, she will agree. As of course it feels really comf and nice int he beginning. measuring 67cm a 65 feels really comfortable, until i wear it for a while, then the rubbing starts, the bra moves on my ribs, even rubbing me so bad I can not wear bras for a few days.
UsuńEven some 60 cm bras does this if they have been worn out. I am actually at the point where I am starting to need 55cm bands. And it is not the cm of the band is how much they stretch and Ewa is turning a blind eye to the fact that her 60c, bands stretch to 70+cm.
No matter what people tell her, they are wrong. She knows it much better, which just show she is arrogant and does not have the knowledge. Also she would scale the wires on their bras if she was really as good as she thinks she is. Not to mention, if youa re unhappy with them and you say it, you get banned from their FB page.
But they solved the problem, they made very many women mad and reufse to make bands below 65. Congratulations, way to shoot yourself int he foot. Comexim and others will be so happy, Made in preston will also be happy I am sure, as they will offer returnable (yes Ewa reurnable without extra paypal fee and 2 weeks waiting time) 26" bras.
Well of course a 60 cm bra stretches to 70+ cm. A girl with a ~60 cm tight measurement around ribcage will probably measure 70+ cm while in full inhale. We do want to be able to breathe in our bras, don't we? ;) The number on the bra reflects the tight underbust measurement, not the max stretch. Maybe that's the source of the misunderstanding?
UsuńMany English/North American girls (myself included) measure their tight underbust with the tape tight, but their ribcage in a natural position (not exhaled). Recently I have learned that in Poland a "tight" measurement is taken much tighter (exhaled,yanking on the tape), which gives a measurement ~10 cm smaller.
UsuńThis explains why English girls have to size down while Polish girls do not - it is not because we are delusional or uncomfortable, simply measuring differently.
"She knows it much better, which just show she is arrogant and does not have the knowledge."
UsuńI know, that Ewa is arrogant, by I don't agree she hasn't knowledge. She really know, what she do.
In Poland we used to have the same brafitting rules, we are looking same problems everything, in wires, in caps, in straps, but not in an our view.
"Many brafitters in my experience (Bravissimo being the decent fitters they are have not tried it) try to fit people into bras that they have"
UsuńAnd I don't agree. In Poland I ALWAYS coud try a smaller band, size 60 is on general release.
I have written almost the same few comments earlier..
OdpowiedzUsuńThe diffrence between band size 90 and band size 60-70 is in most cases that slim girls shouldn't downsize band sizes so much, as they cannot be squezeed so much. The reason is for instance - I have 83/79 and can wear effuniaks band 80 in plunges and 75 in CH as most CH are looser than plunges.
And I have not only skin, but simply more fat that average girl with band size 65-70 and Ewa makes tighter bands - than british companies.
I haven't see you in my life, so I cannot say - you are beautifully slim and have less fat than me and should wear this or this band size.
I simply say - that I have seen some of the photos on FB of which EWa is talking about and some may be a case of too tight bands. Not all women should wear so tight bras. We should feel comfy in them.
Before brafitting academy I also thought yes slim girls in any band size have the same rules. And they simply don't.
Most of them need even tight 75 if they are 73 to feel comfy.
The best is to compare, and then to decide. And I also know that through Internet it's not easy.
Pani Ewo, powtórzę raz jeszcze to co powiedziałam po dobraniu stanika w Brafitterii w Krakowie - kocham Panią za te staniki! Proszę się nie zrażać krytyką. Jedna czy druga primadonna się obrazi, ale może kilka biustów zostanie uratowanych przed torturami :) I staników O_o Pozdrawiam, Julia
OdpowiedzUsuńI can only give my personal opinion :) To begin with, I have no complaint about the straps in my EM SM Trefl!
OdpowiedzUsuńI measure about 85 cm loose / 80 cm tight underbust (this is not accurate/scientific, I self-measured with a bra on). I find that in S and SM bras, 70 band feels tight, but that is how I like it. I could not wear any tighter band, it would simply not be possible to get it on. I could wear 75 but would not feel confident, and 80 would feel too loose for me.
I have chosen 70 HH because I personally like the fit of the cup. I don't want to have a boob buffet, I don't feel comfortable in it :) The cups cover more breast than you've intended, but I feel good in it. I absolutely love how the wires encase my breast perfectly! The biggest reason I (and many others) love EM bras is how the wires are narrow and don't bend out of shape. I tried a smaller cup size (70H) and it was actually too narrow!
You can see how SM Trefl in 70HH looks in my blog post: http://prettybigbras.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/mustaa-pitsia-ewa-michalak-sm-trefl/
Dear all, stating that "UK brafitters fit us differently and wouldn't fit that girl in a 70 band!".
OdpowiedzUsuńWe're not talking about fitters here. Because you usually don't buy EMs bras in a store, right? You order it online.
As far as it goes with "different fitting method"... well I remember that about 4 years ago I started wearing a "well fitted bra" - brafitting was quite new in Poland and we learned almost all from you, from the UK. And then we learned from you to downsize, downsize, downsize! Take a girl with tigh UB measurement equal 82cm, extract 5-10cm from that (more if she's "fluffy") and then round it down to a number ending with 0 or 5. I was fluffier then and the fitters tried to fit me according to UK fitting rules and tried to squish me into 32 bands.
Now a lot has changed in the fitting world. But some of us (and you) has not been at a fitter for quite a time (ordering bras online and stuff) and they do that the way they used to. I see a lot of girls on Bratabase wearing Cleo's bra in 30 with UB like mine (now 78cm)! They look like the're suffering, the wires go almost to their backs but they say that they don't get much support and there's bulging.
And you know what most of the comments are? "Take a smaller band and bigger cup!" - well that's simply sadistic or stupid as hell.
When it comes to Ewa's bras (all bras actually) you buy a bra with a band that expands (till the point where the wires' curves remain unchanged) to more than your loose measurement. BECAUSE YOU NEED TO BREATHE IN THAT BRA! If you measure that (the expanding capabilities) without watching the wires (and you take the measurement when they are more a straight line), then you've got a band too small.
In smaller bands, the stretching capabilities are smaller, because there is less of the band. If you stretch them more, your cups will start getting deformed. So yeah - maybe you can stretch a 60K bra to 85cm, but the wires' curves will be waaay changed.
In a bra with a good cup, the wires won't have a chance to deform when the band pulls them without giving you pretty bulging.
If you wear a 60HH and a 60H, you might see that the bigger band size has the cup slightly too big for you. Why is it? Because it's not pulled by the band towards your back and sides and it's capacity remains more in the actual boob area. Yet it's still the same cup, isn' it?
Think about it. Try to restrain your stubborness, look at the pics of well fitting EMs bras that don't cause their owners any problems.
I agree with the voices that the choice of the model doesn't seem that important- Ewa just wanted to show the mechanism by which many women choose too big cups and too tight bands. I can speak from autopsy as some time ago I also fell in that trap with British bras. And yes, she is right because she is the constructor and she knows what a well-fitting bra of hers should look like. After reading the comments on reddit I got the impression that there's a misunderstanding concerning the way the 90F bra looks on the model. quote: “i don't think this is a way breasts are supposed to be shaped. it looks painful or just like walking around for 10 minutes would shift the breast into a totally different position. it looks like you'd have to adjust it a hundred times a day. i'd be quadboobing in about six seconds, i think. the woman in the photo is even leaning wayyyy back, like if she leans forward she'll be out of the cup.“ This is a bra with a low gore meant to be worn with clothes showing more cleavage than a full cup for this matter. Maybe this is partly the factor underlying the issue discussed here- Ewa's bras are designed not to cover the whole breasts- she mostly wants her lingerie to be sexy, flirtatious and, I guess versatile, clothes-wise. When she started off her company the first design introduced were plunge bras as well-constructed plunges were not so numerous on the market. I wish you wouldn’t criticize her and refute her attempts straight away- I don’t think she did it to tell you how “stupid” you are (we all are humans and can make mistakes) but to visualize the things she wanted to convey in words because a picture is worth a thousand words… Would it really be so hard to have an open mind about it and not take it as an attack on your fitting methods?
OdpowiedzUsuńUhm... I've been to the UK a few years ago and it hard for me to believe that suddenly all of the girls there became that slim and most of them wear clothes in size 8 and below (and I'm talking about blouses, not pants).
OdpowiedzUsuńI'm a 12/14 (stretchy t-shirts or BiuBiu's dresses) and I wear Ewa's 75G bras.
It is not that all of the English girls suddenly became thin. The ones who are average size don't have to order from Poland - there are many English brands (Freya, Fantasie, Panache, Bravissimo, Curvy Kate, Flirtelle, Tutti Rouge, etc) that they can try on in store and buy much more easily.
UsuńThe ones who are most driven to order bras from Poland without being able to try them on or return them are the tiny minority of women who are not serviced by the existing brands because they have very small ribcages and the English brands don't make their size (or there is limited/poor selection in their size).
In Poland, Ewa is just another bramaker, and her customers are all shapes and sizes. In other countries, Ewa has (had?) a cult following of people who are not served by the brands in their own country. This is why her Polish customers wear average sizes, whereas many of her foreign customers have "strange" measurements. It is not that in England all women have 26 inch ribcages, merely that the few English women who DO have 26 inch ribcages are more likely to shop at Ewa Michalak. If she has permanently discontinued their size, these women mostly will not be persuaded to buy an "average" size at EM, they will either find someone else to make their rare size, or they will buy "average" size bras in the UK.
26in is ~66cm and depending on the measurement method, no sane woman in Poland would try something smaller than a 65 or even 70 band.
UsuńEwa's 65 band DOES NOT equal a 30 band in UK sizing.
And BTW I've seen a ton of things like that on bratabase:
http://www.bratabase.com/browse/ewa-michalak/pl-onyks/55JJ/
That looks painful and the fit is bad. And there are tons of other bras on that site that look that bad as well.
Why is is that Polish women can wear a 75 or 80 band for a 73cm UB or a 60 band for a 59cm UB? I've got a 30,7in UB - I wear Ewa's 75 bands, because my boobs are kinda heavy (they need more support) and I'm "fluffy". And I would never wear a 75 in Onyks or Lilia styles, because they go tight in the bands.
Yeah, we had same trend here - to downsize, downsize, downsize. The smaller the band and bigger the letter - the better. And then someone tells you "You should get a bigger band"? Well... we managed to learn from that.
Once again, in the English bra fitting community, a 26 inch ribcage does not refer to a ribcage that can be compressed, exhaled, to 26 inches, rather, to a comfortably snug underbust measurement of 26 inches (approximately the same tightness as you would want a bra band).
UsuńYES, while exhaling and pulling hard on the measuring tape, I can get a measurement of less than 25 inches, and I would never dream of buying an EM 55 band. However, I would also never say that I have "a 25 inch ribcage". Instead I say I have a 27.5 inch ribcage, which is my "comfortably snug" measurement on a natural inhale. My best fit at EM is a 60 band.
I think it is presumptuous and rude to say that this is all about wanting small bands and bigger letters. I was professionally fitted by several "experts" as a 30F/FF or so, and spent years suffering chronic back pain that caused me to pursue reduction surgery, yet refused to try a tighter band size. When I finally did size down to a 28G (later 28GG and 28H with migration), the back pain I had all went away.
Despite this, when I heard that EM bands tended to be tighter, I went by my calculator size of 65, rather than the 28 bands I was wearing. When I got my first EM bra, it looked great when I put it on, but started riding up within minutes, and after 2 hours of wearing it, my chronic back pain was back. So I ordered a band size down and a cup size up. I don't care about numbers, my bras all have different ones anyway. Ewa could call my size 45Z or 60H or 65F or 100A, if it fit well, I would happily wear it. The problem is that the size suggested to me (at least, if I measure my underbust the way I am used to) causes me chronic pain.
Wow, okay, I didn't mean to participate in this discussion, but this has tipped the scale.
UsuńAnonimowy, do NOT use my pictures to support your bullshit theories!!!
You obviously haven't read a word of my review, the fit request I set up and the responses to that!
No one on Bratabase would say that this bra is a good fit!
The reason I uploaded picures of this in the first place is to illustrate what was wrong with the fit.
The bra didn't fit me for the following reasons:
1. Plunge shapes seem to not fit my soft breasts in general. I didn't know that at that time but now I know better
2. The band is too small. This is because I read in many reviews that the band of the PL Onyks ran large. My usual UK bandsize is 28, but I need tight 28 bands. I have tried 30 bands, but they ride up.
3. The cups are also too small. I chose my regular UK cup size, since I ordered this bra to figure out EM bras. Apparently PL styles run small in the cups.
Today I know a lot more about what fits me and that is thanks to the English brafitting community.
I'm also very comfortable in my 28J/JJ bras.
This bra is completely wrong for me and I know that! I do not wear this bra!
I was hoping I could try the S style in a different style, but since EM won't make 60 bands anymore, I can't.
Juliet
Ja napiszę po polsku a co! Pani Ewo, świetnie opisała Pani ten problem. Kupuję Effuniaki, jestem bardzo szczupła, sama skóra i kości, pod biustem mam 64 cm mierzone luźno i czasem Pani 65-tki są ciasne na mnie więc ma Pani rację, że obwód 60 to nie jest potrzeba na dużą skalę. Tak sobie myślę, że ta tendencja do kupowania staników ze zbyt dużymi miseczkami może wynikać z literkofobii. Mieć stanik z miseczką B inaczej działa na psychikę niż stanik z miseczką np. F. Jestem małobiuściasta i też się czasem na tym łapię. Przymierzam stanik 65B ( akurat model dużomiskowy) i sobie myślę: B? no ale przecież noszę C. Inna sprawa, że te fiszbiny odbijające się tak daleko za piersią to tragedia i to poważna. Przecież w ten sposób można sobie piersi rozpłaszczyć i potem będzie płacz.
OdpowiedzUsuńKamila
Is this happening for real? I am not a huge fan of EM's policy in general so consider me more or less objective - and I will ask again: is this happening for real? Are you really trying to convince the constructor that she doesn't know how her well fitting bra should look like; her OWN bra, tried on so many differently shaped girls - skinny and tiny, curvy, muscular, very tall, overweight?...
OdpowiedzUsuńEM's got one model who wears a 60 band, her UB measurement is 59, afair. The girl is reviewing those bras on Balkonetka side and she never has any problems you're describing as so common: too loose band, rubbing, arms-hurting stripes... When I was a bit slimmer, I used to buy bras with 65 bands and found them ok on the verge of being too tight (66 UB). Now I gained a few kilos, my UB measurement is 69 - all of my 65 bands are lying in my wardrobe not being used, waiting for me to lose some weight again, they are simply unbearable at this point. So if you tell you that you are 67 and still need EM's 55 - I will laugh you in the face, seriously. There is a name for this and I believe the name is: masochism.
65 band doesn't mean you're fat. F cup doesn't mean you have small boobs. You don't always have to wear 55H to feel good and - what is also important - look good. Ewa Michalak is not hating you and eliminating you (lol) - she's just trying to help you see the real meaning of well fitted bra. And in her own, slightly bit too arrogant way - she's 100% right!
Świetny wpis, przesyłam koleżankom...
OdpowiedzUsuńCiekawe dlaczego na stanikach, które pokazują Wioladd i AleksandraLM na Balkonetce, tych wad konstrukcyjnych jakoś nie widać
OdpowiedzUsuńhttp://balkonetka.pl/katalog/user/wioladd
http://balkonetka.pl/katalog/user/AleksandraLM
Wioladd nosi 75 lub 80. Jak muszą być szczupłe te osoby, które zamawiają Effuniaki z obwodami 55? Czy są gdzieś recenzje tych staników ze zdjęciami?
Z.
Google translate isn't doing that good a job for me, but here's my view:
OdpowiedzUsuńEve is understandably upset, as people are complaining about the quality of her bras, when they may very well be wearing the wrong size.
I think some of the bad fitting issues are due to it being a moulded bra - it's a lot easier to see that the cup is too big if you have wrinkly cups. I don't think that the bands are necessarily too small.
I'm really not skinny, but my 65HH looks very like the "proper fit" , I almost think I need a J, as I'm worried about falling out! I have no issues with the straps.
I sincerely believe that there is a market for small bands with large cups. I am only put off buying more of Eve's bras due stories of huge inconsistencies of band sizes between styles.
Przyszla AleksandraLM
OdpowiedzUsuńMam 3 staniki od Ewy z obwodem 70 - do obejrzenia w mojej szufladzie na Balkonetce. Reszta to 75. I ja do dzis potrzebuje do tych 70tek przedluzek. Pod biustem mam ciasno jakies 74cm...
And in English - somebody called me?
I have 3 bras from Ewa in a back size - 70 - you can see them in my Szuflada on Balkonetka. All of the other ones are 75s.
The 70s are already 2 years old and I still need to use them with an extender.
My tight torso ub measurement is about 74c, now. AleksandraLM
>I think some of the bad fitting issues are due >to it being a moulded bra - it's a lot easier to >see that the cup is too big if you have wrinkly >cups. I don't think that the bands are >necessarily too small.
OdpowiedzUsuńYou're wrong. Either too big moulded and soft cup can be made "fitting" when pulled by appropriately tight band and straps.
To all Anglo-Saxon customers: you get Ewa's instructions wrong! No one accuses you of choosing too tight bands! Your mistake is taking too big cups combined with bands tight enough to pull them and eliminate wrinkles.
When you choose right cups with bigger band they will be just as stable and supportive as the bras you have now, but they will be more comfy and you won't experience too-widely-set-straps issue.
Effu, no genialny post! :-)
OdpowiedzUsuńa miny bezcenne :-D
se siedzę właśnie w magnolii i ubolewam nad brakiem magnoliopodobnych kolorowych (błagam, zrób jakiś kolorowy halfek na przyszły sezon, proszę!).
uściski!
tfu.tfu
Patrząc na niektóre zdjęcia dziewczyn biorących udział w flamewarze na FB, na myśl przychodzi mi to zdjęcie:
OdpowiedzUsuńhttp://livinglikealady.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/images-31.jpeg
To, że jesteś w stanie zapiąć na sobie jeansy (lub stanik), wcale nie oznacza, że są w dobrym rozmiarze.
Effuniaku, świetny post! Trafia w samo sedno;)
OdpowiedzUsuńAfera na FB jakoś mi umknęła i teraz czytam te komentarze i nie wierzę! Szkoda mi tylko dziewczyn, które same sobie robią taką krzywdę, a dobre rady odbierają jako atak.
@up: Zalinkowane wyżej zdjęcie jest trafnym porównaniem. Ta pani też mogłaby co chwilę zaniżać rozmiar, bo przecież spodnie ciągle się zsuwają ;)
I also have a feeling that a lot of people discard EM calculator because they do not the instructions carefully, and they measure themselves in the same way they do for various sizing charts. First thing is, you need to exhale before you measure. Second, there are two underbust measurements - very tight and regular - which show how compressible your underbust is, in other words, how much fat there is on your ribcage. To be true, the first needs to be very tight indeed, as much as you can get. Third, you measure your bust when you have no bra on, leaning forward with torso parallel to the ground, with your breasts hanging down. Fourth, it's a difficult way to measure! Ask someone to help you.
OdpowiedzUsuńI believe some people who claim they are 80 cm underbust and use 65 Ewa bands just measured themselves incorrectly. Exhale, tighten the measuring tape - you may be closer to 70cm than you thought!
And why does the 65 band stretch to 75 or 80 cm? To give your ribcage and lungs some room when you inhale.
Nobody seems to be taking into account that the weight of the breasts also matters. The heavier they are, the tighter band is needed. So for two women with the same underbust measured tight and loose, the one with bigger breasts may need a tighter band to hold her breasts. And yes, she will have some marks on her skin. But the other one, with a lighter bust (usually smaller but I am not sure it's only about the size - the type of tissue also matters) will not need to have the same marks.
And then there is fat versus slim. It is a fact that women with bigger underbusts tend to be fat more often, the big underbust being the result of being fat. But women are also build in a different ways. There are women with wide ribcages but little fat - ther are also women with small ribcages who are seriously overweight. And in such a case, the woman who is naturally big but slim may need a bigger band - she does not need to size down and have nasty marks, actually squeezing her ribcage would be hurtful. At the same time a woman who is smaller but fat will be better off with a tighter band, leaving more marks but giving better support. This is what the two underbust measurements in Ewa Michalak calculator are for.
I believe that this whole argument arose as a mixture of misunderstandings. For some people it may be completely correct to size down by 10 cm from what the calculator tells them, because they did not measure correctly, so their measurements are off. However, telling everyone to size down by 10 cm is completely wrong, too. You never know how the other person measures herself. There may also be women for whom Ewa Michalak bras just won't work because they are made for a different shape. After trying on several brands you certainly realize that different bras fit different people and different breast shapes. You cannot really say some are good and some are bad - you can only say which are good for you.
Well, I didn't want to participate in such a ridiculous discussion - but I somehow feel like I should leave a comment.
OdpowiedzUsuńI am quite new to the bra fitting community and feel really good now with well fitting bras. Getting deeper into this topic I must say that I am ashamed to find such a shitstorm going on here. We get onto each other for different approaches rather than care about the general idea of fitted bras!
There might be some cultural and language differences/problems, but first of all I think the truth lies in between all of our opinions.
None idea and guidelines of "the correct bra size" (sic! there is no such thing due to different materials, different brands) and none brafitting approach is holy and a dogma. We all have to use guidelines and decide on every woman which size fits her (most of all, she has).
Second: Customers can/should express their wish for changes, but the producer surely knows how the fit of his own products should be. If this two ideas hugely diverge and lack of discussion policies, well... you see what is going on.
So all you tight band wearing woman out there, first, don't feel insulted, take a deep breath and then think about the core idea: Evas bras might fit you better/different if you go one band size up and cup down. Ok, maybe not better for your standards atm, but more likely as they were designed to fit. Then decide if you like it or not!
Girls, we should not quarell about one band size more or less. Because in the end, no one cares for the number tag in your bra, only you have to care for your well-beeing and feeling!
Greetings from Austria (so, sorry for any weird english sentence construction ;-))
Absolutely agree with Karin! Please girls, try to understand what Ewa's message is behind these, sometimes a bit frustrated, remarks: your breasts should be supported and shaped in a healthy way.
OdpowiedzUsuńOne danger or sticking to a bra that doesn't fit (cups too big, band too tight) is that your breast tissue might spread out towards your armpits to try and fill out the space in the cup. would you rather have two flat boobs that grow out of your armpits or let it go and try a wider band?
myself I've been misfitted in the past, told that I should wear the tightest band I can fasten because my breasts are so heavy. But I found, through trial and error, that exaggerating either way wasn't helping my breasts. they were tired, shapeless.. now I'm wearing a band two sizes bigger than what I've been initially fitted into and my breasts are perky, round and happy :) only a bra that doesn't harm your ribs and encapsulates the breast and the breast only, will yield health benefits for your boobs! everything else is just not good for you - and why would you hurt your body when the solution can be as easy as sizing up in a band?
cheers from China
You're acting like we haven't tried the "healthy" sizes.
UsuńThat's where we started. I started at a band size closest to my underbust in cm. I had back and shoulder aches.
After years of suffering, I went down to -5. Still, back and shoulder aches.
Now, finally, at -10 I'm free of all pain. I'm comfortable. I can exercise because my sport bras finally support my breasts. I can walk with a straight back and good posture and you all claim I'm hurting myself and being unhealthy.
I am going to try to use simple language so everyone can understand. I hope it works :)
OdpowiedzUsuńI have been trying to "explain" Ewa's position on Reddit, Bratabase, etc since the whole argument on facebook. I believe that there is a very large misunderstanding, and I believe that there are different preferences.
Personally, I wear 60GG in Effuniak. I have similar measurements to the model who wears the same size (I saw her profile on Balkonetka - I measure 62cm UB 92.5cm bust, the calculator tells me 60FF. I tried 60FF, 60G, and 60GG!). I also wear my bras "loose" and don't tighten the straps very much. I only measure 67cm *inhaling*, so Effuniak in 60 band still stretches larger than 67cm. It is comfortable to me. I do not have issues with too-wide straps. The underwires end at the right spot. The underwires do not distort when the bra is on (I have tested with multiple extenders). I have tried 65FF Effuniak and the underwires end at the right spot, but the cups are too small and the band rides up. Maybe 65G would be good, but 60GG is really not too tight to begin with.
I think many Polish women think that we British/American women desire tighter bands than we do. I see examples like 55 band on 78cm underbust. This is simply not true! At absolute most, 55 band would measure 65cm underbust. 78cm underbust would take, at lowest, 65cm band. Polish women seem to think we are causing ourselves pain with tight bands. This is not the case. When a woman complains about pain from a too tight band, we ALWAYS suggest to go up in the band! Many of us feel no pain from tight bands, and these bands do not leave marks on our skin that stay permanently. I have been wearing 60/28 bands on my 62cm-65cm (it changes) ribcage for a long time, and no marks ever last for more than 15 minutes or so. I think this needs to be understood. We may prefer tighter bands, you may prefer looser bands, but in no way do we suggest harming your body with painful, too tight bands.
I do think that Ewa has a point, exaggerated sizes aside, but there is some general misunderstanding. I hope through this we can come to understand each other better.
(It may also be worth pointing out that the other large bra fitting community, Busenfreundinnen, does not follow the super too tight band philosophy NOR do they follow the very loose band philosophy. They are somewhere in the middle. Does the story of Goldilocks exist in Poland...?? Perhaps they are on to something...)
I also ask, Ewa -- Please, please consider keeping 60 bands as custom order. There are those of us, one of your models included, that truly needs 60 bands, and they fit well on us. We do not have many options, because 60/28 bands in British brands have very wide underwires in the same cup size.
I would like to agree with the people calling for you to resume making 60 and 55 bands, regardless of whether you move the straps or not.
OdpowiedzUsuńI can understand that, because of fitting preference or body shape difference or even aesthetic choice, your Polish market prefers the straps in their current position, and for this reason you will not change the straps. That is fine.
However, you were one of the only companies that made 60 and 55 bands, and one of the even fewer with narrow wires. Wide straps only bother me a little, but I will not buy looser bands - I suffered chronic back pain for 5 torturous years of my life while wearing a band size looser than I am now (just to be clear, I don't care about the numbers, if you made your 65 bands 5 cm less stretchy, I would happily buy them)
Dear Ewa, if you wanted to prove a point you should have put that woman in 80GG not 70KK, because that's the size we crazy ladies would reccommend.
OdpowiedzUsuńThis is exagerating just to prove a point, and you are actually missing the merritum.
We can agree to disagree about the bands, but can we agree at least that a gore should tack? (central bridge sitting flat between breasts?
Please enlarge the last frontal photo of 90F and tell me that thing is flat.
You can clearly see it's nowhere near the sternum and is actually poking the breast tissue in the middle.
also, those wires are clearly too narrow for that model and poking a part of her boob on the side.
Now let's talk about healthy way to ware a bra - too large cups can cause less damage then too small ones. Too small cups are the ones that will push your breasts in the armpits because breasts don't have anywhere else to go.
Also, wire on breast tissue can never be considered a healthy way to go.
Agreed, ideally the bra should encapsulate the breast tissue from the side. But I'd rather have wires 2 cm too wide then 2 cm too narrow like featured above.
Personally I agree with some of you polish ladies - some women are trying to make EM bras into fullcups when they are not designed that way. But the adult way to go about this is caring about your customers would in my mind involve trying to design a bra accordding to their needs - something with more coverage, that keeps boobs from jiggling about and has more centered straps.
This is what all these women are trying to achieve.
Even from these exagerated pictures it is clear that it's more likely the model will be *safer* in 70Kk then 90f.
So instead trying to prove your customers wrong, why don't you try understanding what they want and need?
You see, I have a bra that fits (not an EM one) and the central brigde is not sitting flat between my breast. With larger cup it was sitting flat, but the cups were too large. So I prefer cup that fits with bridge that doesn't sit between my breast. It's not a must in some models on some kind/shape of breasts.
UsuńAnd on the EM bras; they are not fullcups, Ewa won't design nor fullcups neither balcony bras, as she wrote some time ago; there are plenty of fullcups' and balconys' producers, so we won't need another one. If anyone needs a fullcup, she can buy, there's plenty of them. If every bra manufacturer made just the same bras as other, we would have no choice. And there are some women who like less covering bras and some need it (if you want a bra that covers your breasts and prevents moving, then buy a sports bra, not a plunge of halfcup...). And Ewa's bras are open on top, esp. halfcups, so there's no way the breast won't move. Plunges and S's are also not so covering, so big part of breasts is uncoverd and if your breasts are rather soft - they will move on top while walking, but not bounce. And I think girls know what they're buying - in Ewa's shop bras are labeled, you see clearly that this is halfcup, plunge, or S, that is like plunge but with a little higher central bridge, no fullcups. And in too large cup the support is so poor that breasts move inside the cup - also not good, for there's no support and the skin can be irritated. The perfect cup is better than too large and than too small, this is what I understood from Ewa's post here. Even if the central bridge doesn't sit flat on your sternum (as I've mentioned before, it depends on breast shape and compatibility with a bra). And ideal cup is not a large letter with small band but band size somewhere near your UB measurement in cms + a fitting cup. I also understand that the calculator sometimes doesn't work good, I've experienced it (the calculator suggested 70F while 70G or 65GG was fitting, later it suggested 70HH with 65GG fitting, but I've get slimmer then and the consistency of my breasts had changed). But last times it shows the right size. I understand that you may go 5 cm down, but going 10 cm down is hard to imagine for me. At the time I wear 70 band, with 69 UB, I've tried 65 and it was really tight and I don't think I could stand the 60 band, or even fasten it. And even when I was fat, when my UB measurement was 83, I was wearing 75 band and 70 was far too tight, I couldn't even fasten it. Sure you should wear a band that you feel is ok, but when it creaks while fastening or you have to stretch it well to fasten - then it's too tight. And bands in EM bras can go up a little, I mean they won't make a straight line on your back, but they will lie in a slight bow and it's alright. The only thing that should be changes, are the straps, but not their place. The materials are terrible, that's all what is wrong with the straps (and because of the materials, the straps are hard to adjust and not holding well, they're too stretchy)
"Even from these exagerated pictures it is clear that it's more likely the model will be *safer* in 70Kk then 90f."
UsuńYou gotta be kidding :)) No, 70KK wont be safer than 90F, cause its waaay to big, and the breast is jumping inside the cup and has NO support.
@kas - believe me I know everething about specifics that prevent a gore from lying flat. But this specific model is in too small cups. There is a simple test - Push the gore to sit flat and see if you spill over - If you do, the cups are too small. And here she is borderilne spilling over as it is.
UsuńThere are women that choose to wear too small bras to get more cleavage as they are women who wear too big cups to get more coverage.
At one point it's about choices and preferences. You would rather have a floating gore and I would rather have too big cups. Because in my case flat gore brings more stability even if in too big cups.
I respect you and your way and am not judging anyone who is making an educated choice and would apreciate if you respected mine.
As for "full cups" (and I use the signs because more coverage isn't necesairily a full cup) - tere is a *big* demand for this in the small underbust/full bust area. This is what Ewa obviously doesn't understand (which she demonstrates by taking a woman with a 92 cm underbust - the women that reacted on the strap issue were all women with naturally small underbust, like 75 cm at most!!
The problem hereis that ALL underwires made for more coverage are WAY too wide, this is why we turned to Poland in the first place. Becuse we didn't have any other choice by ANY fitting standard.
Small underbust and big bust are the hardest demographics to fit and Ewa seemed to be on a good way to cater to it, but now seems to be more concerned by being right then helping women out.
@anonymus - No I am not kidding. You clearly don't understand that a strap and the band on that bra are way tighter then you wear them. This pulls the whole bra closer to the chest and keeps breasts more covered. In result you have more contained breasts that move less. That's why sports bras are made to hold boobs close to the chest to prevent movement. try shortening your straps and band and see what happens.
Sorry, but how can a bra with a cup too big, where you have lots of room lest for boobs, give you more support than a bra that actually fits you?
UsuńIf I try to shorten my straps and band in a well-fitted bra - there will be loads and loads of bulging. And it will not give me more support.
If the presented 70KK was a non-padded bra, you'd see loads of wrinkles on the cups and the fact that they are too big, would be more obvious. You'd see free space on the sides, near the straps and you'd see that the boobs don't get much support. It's easier to hide the "too-biggness" in a padded bra.
And I do understand your point about the central gore in the 90F, but I think that it's simply caused by the bra not being 100% properly put on (I think the boobs were scooped in from sides, but the gore wasn't put in place right). It's kinda high in this style and size and the model has her breasts placed very near themselves, so it's simply pushing itself between them :)
Vee - do you want bra, that stick your breasts to your chest? it's very simple - buy a sport bra!
Usuńor maybe you want to show some more? then buy a bra, that give less support than sport bra, but don't cover all your breasts!
"Because in my case flat gore brings more stability even if in too big cups."
UsuńBut too large caps are less stabily! Boobs aren't good suport, this is not "more healthy". Or course, if you pull a too large cup with straps and a band, you can press your breast to the rib cage as in sports bra, but why you don't bay a sports bra, alternately a full cup, then plunge or half cup?
BTW many sport bra are nor underwired and them gores are not flat.
Ten komentarz został usunięty przez autora.
UsuńI am really doing my best to make you understand that for me and many other girls with small underbust and big bust there aren't any good options out there.
UsuńThese are the main points I am trying ti get across.
- This isn't about bands, cups, and straps.
THIS IS ABOUT SUPPORT.
- women in J+ cups have SPECIFIC fitting issues in ALL bras
- women with small underbusts and large breasts have specific requirements to feel support!
- You are all being very unsensitive.
I am 72 underbust, 108 standing and 111 cm leaning over.
I am not wearing too tight bands - I took a 70 band in EM bras.
You can see loads of my puctures here
http://www.bratabase.com/profile/3bw/bras/
I resent the comment I should be wearing a sports bra if I wanted support.
First of all, sports bras rely on major compression and are not healthy for everyday wear.
Secondly, I should have more options then that!
Besides, in my size there are NO bras sports bra that fit me. I had a special order Enell bra made because of it. Would you have me wearing that thing as an everyday bra??
I found that comment very mean and hurtful.
What part don't you understand?? If you pull seemingly too large cup and dragg it out across your chest with tightening the band and the straps the cup won't be too small anymore. It will hold you closer and keep you separated. That way you get MORE stability then when you keep your boobs projected and open on top.
You don't believe me? Try it. Pull your straps and bands tighter. Your cups will get too small. If you are to fit yourself that way, you need bigger cups because that way cups are not too big anymore.
Now let's get specific.
My boobs start near my collarbones - I have what we call tall boobs. That's why I need high gores - to keep them stable and separated.
My boobs are not soft, but they are heavy. They will collapse in the middle of any bra that hasn't got a gore high enough.
My boobs are naturally also very high on chest. This means most bras (polish ones excluded) will poke me in my armpit.
My boobs are very narrow in root - this means that most bras with the right cup volume will have wires way too wide for me (polsih bras excluded).
My boobs are also very large and projected. If I fit myself like you guys do (and I have tried) I get no support! I need my breasts contained and kept closer to the chest in order to avoid jiggling and back pain. Or else I'm better off without a bra.
At this point I have two options - either get a polish bra and have the wires in the right spot on the side but too much projection and jiggle, or have a uk bra and feel safe but have wires in my armpits.
And both will give me strap placement trouble because I am very high on chest and need to shorten my straps significantly to get any lift.
http://s9.postimg.org/5gmj9em8f/image.jpg
So I basically have no good options.
I am glad you ladies have more options then me and that you found what works for you. And I trully respect your way.
But every pair of breasts is unique and has it's own requirements. No bra will work for all breasts. And just like that - there can't be just one fitting method that works for all - at least not when there aren't any good options for women like ne. We are picking the smaller of the two evils
- some of us have tried it your way. It doesn't work for us
On me UK way of fitting is WAY more supportive then the polish way. That is a fact. Those are my boobs and I know what I'm talking about. I am not imposing my way on everyone and I am nit saying it will work for everyone. I am saying that it works for me. Please respect that.
- our size dictates our options. Some of us have almost none!
Personally, I feel very hurt by all this.
I don't feel like you are coming from a place off good intention or good faith. I feel like you are trying to be right, not to hear or to understand.
We are real women with real problems and real feelings.
Judging eachother is getting us nowhere.
"- This isn't about bands, cups, and straps.
UsuńTHIS IS ABOUT SUPPORT.
- women in J+ cups have SPECIFIC fitting issues in ALL bras "
We know it, we just tell more of you coun't wear J+ size.
"I resent the comment I should be wearing a sports bra if I wanted support.
First of all, sports bras rely on major compression and are not healthy for everyday wear."
Really tight band and too wide wires are not healthy too. There are also full cup bra or balconette bra for give you more support, why you are insisting in plunges or full cups?
You don's understant, a band size and cups ARE NOT two independent parameters! A largen cup isn't better then too small, a tight band don't give you more support. It's a illusion. Your feeling about a band depends to caps size and vice vers
Oh my God, Are you not reading or not understanding what I wrote or is it just not coming through your closed mind?
UsuńI really feel I can only repeat myself so I would ask of you to read what I wrote again instead.
You comment how more of us can't be wearing J+ cups in ridiculous. Here are women from all over the world that turned to Ewa Michalak because nobody else came close to solving their problem. Don't you think we would all be happier to just wank into a store to buy a bra?? We can't do that.
Do you know what it costs for us to ship the bras from poland and then paying customs for them? We are paying twice the price you are and trust me we wouldn't be doing it if we didn't have REAL problems.
Yes, too wide wires are nit healthy. ThATS WHY WE ARE HERE. UK and US brands on average have 3 cm wider wires then EM in the same size.
Furthermore, women that don't use your fitting method take time and effort to determine where exactly the root of the boobs ends. Most of the time it is further back then you might think. The best way to tell is when you have pms, then you should feel your sides to see where it stops hurting.
Our view on things is that it is better to have a little too wide wires then a little too narrow ones. Because 1 cm away from your root can't do no harm, but one cm on the breast tissue can do bery much harm.
I honestly don't know if way too wide wires are dangerous or not, I can only say they are uncomfortable and usupportive. In some UK brands i have like 5 cm empty space on the sides in the Right size, I don't get that with polish brands.
Now lets talk bands.
A part of confusion is comming from all of us here using +0 but inches don't translate to cm literally.
75 cm is about 30 inches. Choosing a 30 band (65) from UK brand won't feel too tight because UK brands take inches literally.
If you would but a 75cm (34 inch) band from UK, you would find it too loose. That is a fact. Try freya 34/75 band and report back.
I am european and I understand that EU manufacturers use CM. i have been wearing 75 european bands most of my life, and they are just too loose. I am not imagining them riding up my back.
The thing is - the band might not actuay be too loose - in my case breastsare just too heavy for it and weigh the bra down in front and thus the band rides up.
I would *love* to wear looser bands, but I can't.
And so with my 72 cm underbust I take 65 in UK brands which are looser and 70 in Polish. Tell me I am crazy and that is too tight.
I have linked pictures so check if you want.
And am I delusional? Are my breasts actually small?!
Sure, some of us are wearing too tight bands and too big cups, just as some of you are wearing too small cups and wires on breast tissue.
Most of us are not!
I think you would find our type of fitting when done properrly - not exagerated version Ewa did here - quite comfortable, supportive and harmless. But you would really need an open mind for that.
What part of *Fullcups in mysize don't work for me*
Don't you understand??
I am not insisting on plunges and halfcups,I hate plunges for that matter and they don't work for me! There is just not that many choices in my size and the wires on Polish bras are better for me then UK bras. For most of us with small underbust and j+ cups wires of UK brands are too wide.
And actually you are not aware of that - we know that the same band in. Bigger cupsizes will feel way looser! Because our cups are bigger and wider - and thus a 70G band will feel way tighter then a 70KK!
Besides, why are you trying too convince us that our bands are too tight?
We are the ones wearing the bras, don't you think we should be able to tell?!
I would really apreciate if you climed off your high horse and realize that I know and understand my body better then you people who never saw me in your life.
"Oh my God, Are you not reading or not understanding what I wrote or is it just not coming through your closed mind?"
UsuńThat's all for me, thank you for our discution. My English is rather poor and I shoud really exert myself. I think that's not worth it.
With all the respect - who has been banned from FB page, as I don' t recall banning anybody?
OdpowiedzUsuńThe above comment was by me -FB Edyta- and I haven't banned anyone since I was in charge, so I feel personally insulted and accused of something I haven' t done.
OdpowiedzUsuńPeople are very emotional because of the discontinued sizes One person probably had a glitch that made them unable to load the facebook page, whereas another person had a glitch where the website did not let them purchase. Because there is so much emotions, they blamed both on you :)
UsuńI think most of us believe you that even if we dissagree on fit, you would never do these things :)
What I think is that the word "sorry" (at least) is missing here..
UsuńYou act as if this situation is kind of funny (using those smiling emoticons) while the accusations which were written as unquestionable fact are still there, and everyone can read them not going through about 50 comments more, where it is stated that they were written based on wrong assumptions.. And the "black PR" (expression that you seem to love so much) or rather the gossip is spread.
I forgot to add; to all the girls out there who purchased a bra with a band way tighter than your UB measurement: do consider that if you overstretch the fabric, it will lose its elasticity forever. As an example: EM bra with a 70 band is designed to fit an UB of 68-72cm. If you buy it for an UB of 78cm you're overstretching the fabric by at least 6cm (add some more cm for inhaling). obviously, over even a short period of time, the band will lose its stretch and become too loose. but that's only because it's been abused. in those cases choosing your next bra to be a 65 band is just going into a vicious spiral - the 65 band will overstretch even worse and faster.
OdpowiedzUsuńif the cups are too big and the band too tight, the cups are being pulled under the armpit, rub against one's arm : as a result, the fabric will become dirty with sweat and deodorant and the underwires lose their form which wouldn't happen if the underwire end along the breast.
so by choosing the right size, where all the element of the bra are in the right places, you can extend the lifespan of this bra by a lot.
btw. I think the 90F is a good fit, I don't see the wires as too narrow nor the bridge to be hanging. you are right that the wires are slightly too wide between the breasts, but this only proves that this isn't the perfect bra type for this model, nothing else.
I am sure that sometimes people do wear bands that are too tight, but it is not the case that everyone does. You talk about how the customer does not always know their correct bra size, but I think a lot of irritated customers are upset because you are not listening to them when they talk about their SHAPE not their SIZE.
OdpowiedzUsuńYou have put this woman in the photos into a 70 band, when even in the UK we would not put her in a 70 band - it is obvious a 70 would be too small, and a KK would be too big..of course!
Your fitting methods are not perfect. For example, your bra size calculator tells me I should wear a 75E. Here is a picture in my real Ewa Michalak size which is 70G.
http://sophiajenner.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/embra.jpg
As you can see, I do not have any problems with straps, and the cups are perfect, not wide at all.
Why is it that even though I do not wear the size your calculator suggests, I am still comfortable and well fitted?
...because my shape is different to the girls with the very small backs and big cup sizes. Perhaps Ewa Michalak bras are not right for their shape, but it is not always because they are wearing a band that is too small.
I measure 27,5 inches under bust I take a bra that is 28G and for example Bravissimo Alana fits me perfectly in that size.
OdpowiedzUsuńNow if I measure myself in metric, i am 69 cm. I would take a bra that is 70 band size. But UK 28 is not europe 70, it is 60 for some reason. So there is this odd numbers game that confused me when I started ordering bras online because nothing in local stores would fit.
But since Ewa is manufacuring bras for sizes measured in metric, I would definitly start with her calculator size and move on from that to suit my needs.
"But UK 28 is not europe 70, it is 60 for some reason." The reason is the so called plus four method which is taken into account by British manufactuers when they label their bras. If you added four to your inch measure, you would get 32 band which is labelled 70 and theoretically should fit a 70 cm underbust. But that does not work well for everyone and does not work for every brand. Ewa's bras are quite tight so it would be wiser not to substract too much from your underband measurement (using her calculator correctly is usually the best idea). Some British brands are quite loose in the band which is why many women prefer not to add inches or add 2 inches instead of adding 4. For some, the plus 4 method works well. Everybody is different.
OdpowiedzUsuńKasika, the reason we are all getting offended is because what you recommend is EXACTLY what most of us are already doing, yet we are being accused of being delusional idiots. Here is some of the most common band size advice in the English-speaking community:
Usuń1) Measure your underbust both "supertight" and "comfortable/snug". Some people measure supertight inhaled. Either way, there is usually a minimum 5 cm difference between the two measurements. The "comfortable" measurement in inches is in general a good starting band size for the "average" person" - this is 5-10cm LARGER than the supertight measurement, so only 0-5cm smaller than the Polish method.
2)If you are very squishy(fat) or have very large/heavy boobs, you may prefer to size down to a smaller band for more support.
3)If you are very skinny or have very small/self-supporting boobs, you may prefer to size UP to a larger band size for comfort.
4)Some brands run tighter than others. Freya and Curvy Kate run loose, so consider sizing DOWN in these brands. Cleo and Ewa Michalak run tight, so consider sizing UP in these brands.
Yes, it is slightly different than the Polish method, and probably on average yields slightly tighter bands and bigger cups, but we are not crazy. We are not cracking our ribs. We are not delusional. It is simply a cultural difference where in Poland cleavage and projection are valued more, whereas in English-speaking community, firm support and less pressure on the straps is valued more.
Also, keep in mind that it is not like we haven't TRIED the Polish method or similar. It is VERY similar to what most of the shops in the rest of the world promote. However, if I wear a band 1-2 sizes larger and cups 2-3 smaller, which I did for YEARS it looks fine but I suffer SEVERE chronic back pain that renders me unable to leave the house some days. I pursued reduction surgery before getting involved in the bra fitting community. My pain evaporated within a week when I sized down to 28/60 bands - in looser bands (NOT EM) I would probably even prefer a 26. This is not to say that the cm/+2/+4 method doesn't work for anyone - millions of Polish women prove otherwise, as do my sister and mother who have smaller breasts and are most comfortable this way
DO NOT disrespect me by saying that I am delusional and just want to be skinny, or that I am warping the cups. I'm not, I checked.
Ewa says that all of the strap problems in the extreme small-band, large-cup people are because we wear the wrong size, since in Poland nobody has these problems, yet in the same breath she says that nobody in Poland wears these sizes. Ewa has (had?) a cult following around the world of the very rare people who have very small bands and large cups, because barely anybody makes these sizes and most have too wide wires. It is no coincidence that her few Australian customers are all weird sizes, and it is not because everyone in Australia is shaped weird. It is because normal shaped Australians buy their bras in Australia, NOT Poland. Is it really so hard to believe that the very extreme sizes that she has never or rarely seen in person have different fitting requirements (tighter band to hold heavier weight, straps placed more centrally) than the sizes that she is more used to seeing?
OF course, so English-speakers are wearing their bras obviously wrong. I'm sure every once in a while somebody on Balkonetka comes in wearing something totally crazy. That is not, however, the "normal" person in Poland, nor is it the "normal" person in any other bra-fitting community.
Yet in the past few days, Polish girls have combed the English communities and posted out of context pictures to this thread, to the EM facebook page, and to Balkonetca ridiculing "English fitting methods". Most of these pictures, the posters themselves said "this does not fit", and let me tell you. It's crass and it is childish.
So yes, we are hurt.
I actually remember a situation on Bratabase where a girl was wearing an really badly fitted bra - it was some Cleo bra with a 30 band.
UsuńThe band looked like it was about to cut the poor girl in half, the wires ended very near her back (and they were stretched very, very much) and some bulging was visible in the front.
She said that there is not enough support.
And what were the advices from UK users? Go down a back size and up a cup size... Some of us, Polish girls, tried to explain that she should go UP a band size and try a different cup size, but we were almost called crazy, because the bra obviously didn't give enough support, so it's logical that a smaller band should be considered.
Yeah... English fitting methods FTW.
To wszystko jest ciekawe, ale... ja tak bardzo czekam na stroje kąpielowe (jakiś brązowy może, ładny... halterneck...) - czy jest sens czekać w tym roku na kostiumy?
OdpowiedzUsuńNie , na kostiumy nie ma sensu czekać. Jest możliwośc uszycia na zamówienie bezzwrotne czarnego a jeśli masz biust wielkości średniej to nawet może być halterneck :)
UsuńA czy można gdzieś zobaczyć, jak ten bezzwrotny czarny kostium by wyglądał? I ile by taki bezzwrotny kostium (góra + dół) kosztował?
UsuńDear American girls - I like tight bands but I never bought British bras in the same size as Ewa Michalak's bras. Her bras are different - very tight and different (I think better) technical design.
OdpowiedzUsuńWe don't have your problems with straps, because we choose good sizes. Please look carrefully at photos at Balkonetka.pl (click "Recenzje staników" in menu and find EM bras).
We discovered bra-fitting 7 or 8 years ago. Initially we also used to choose too tight bands. But even then, never from EM bras.
Pani Ewo, chwała, że taki wpis się pojawił. Zdjęcia obwodów 50-55-60 na Bratabase wołają o pomstę do nieba, nie widziałam tam ani jednego dobrze dobranego rozmiaru stanika, wszędzie obwody naciągnięte do niemożliwości i zamknięte miseczki rozłażące się pod pachy... to jest już wręcz niebezpieczne. Niestety, ale tak to wygląda, że zagranica zachłysnęła się psychicznie wyszczuplającą siłą metki w ciasnym rozmiarze... na rodzimych serwisach rzadko pojawiają się tak pomysłowe użytkowniczki, poza tym od razu odzywają się głosy doradzające dobry rozmiar i zwracające uwagę na zbytnie zaniżenie. Niestety, na Bratabase to wygląda inaczej - znajdują się osoby, które przyklasną, że rozmiar jest dobry, tylko np. miska za mała, albo w ogóle wszystko super, chociaż biust rozpłaszczony pod pachy. Taki jest stan rzeczy i nie ma sensu się oburzać... Jeśli kupujecie normalnie obwód 30 z bielizny brytyjskiej i jest on luźnawy, to trzeba się przyzwyczaić, że z EM należy wziąć 32, a nie 26/28...
OdpowiedzUsuńJa nie wiem co Ty robisz na Bratabase Alladyno, skoro wg Ciebie są tam źle dobrane staniki, chyba się ostanikowywujesz w 75B z H&M.
UsuńEwo- genialny wpis!!!
OdpowiedzUsuńFantastycznie by było gdyby takie wpisy pojawiały się częściej z innymi przykładami :)
Jakby można było pokazać klientkę z miską o rozmiar/dwa rozmiary za dużą/ za małą i tak samo z obwodem - myślę, że to bardzo by pomogło w dobrze rozmiaru jeśli jest zamawiany przez net - wtedy można porównać do zdjęć i stwierdzić czy jednak spróbować z miską/obwodem mniejszym lub większym. Zamawiając internetowo czasem nie jesteśmy pewne czy stanik dobrze leży a taki zdjęciowy poradnik bardzo by pomógł :) (wiem, że jest video ;))
Dzięki Twojemu wpisowi wiem dlaczego wbijał mi się stanik dobrany przez brafitterkę w Poznaniu (sklep Malou Factory Outlet Luboń) - dobrała mi 75G (inna marka) kiedy w Twoim sklepie sklepie dobrano mi 85DD. Miska i ramiączko było tak wysoko w tym 75G, że zdzierał mi skórę - dokładnie tak jak piszesz jakby chciał mi obciąć rękę!! Po dwóch godzinach noszenia miałam krwawe ślady i stanik wylądował w szufladzie na dnie.
Pozdrawiam,
Kasia
Prawdę mówiąc ironia wyciekająca z tej notki jest dla mnie przykra. Ja rozumiem, że klient(ka) może coś źle dobierać - ba - i nawet iść w zaparte, że robi to dobrze. I że można spróbować jej to wytłumaczyć. Ale bez złośliwości. Chyba że się mylę...
OdpowiedzUsuńJa mam zarąbisty problem ze stanikami. KAŻDY po dłuższej chwili noszenia robi na moim ciele znacznie gorsze ślady niż te na modelce. Nawet tak zwane sportowe (jedyne, jakie ostatnio jestem w stanie nosić).
Kiedyś moja szuflada pękała w szwach od rozmaitych kolorów i fasonów staników. Teraz chciałabym mieć JEDEN, w którym się będę czuła komfortowo...
Effuniaki miałam dwa. W jednym byłam absolutnie zakochana, nosiłam dopóki nie wylazły z nich fiszbiny (kilka lat), drugi - miałam na sobie kilka razy. W szufladzie leży nadal, żebym miała co na siebie włożyć jeśli wychodzę w czymś, spod czego sportowy stanik wystaje... Dla mnie ma za wąskie ramiączka (wpijają się, a po rozluźnieniu spadają) oraz - ostrą nitkę na obwodzie. Coś, co pewnie dla większości byłoby niezauważalne (w palcach słabo wyczuwalne) u mnie na ciele powoduje rany. Ale spoko. Znalazłam metodę. Pod stanik zakładam gąbkę. Taką jak od winogron. Wtedy nie ma ran...
Podobają się takie złośliwości?
Przy moim aktualnym miejscu zamieszkania w grę wchodzi wyłącznie zakup poprzez internet. Przy moich aktualnych dochodach niestety ten stanik to spory wydatek. I nie stać mnie na to, żeby kupić kolejny "wypełniacz szuflady". Bo czy będzie dobry czy nie przekonam się po dwóch dniach. A noszonego nie odeślę...
Dopóki mieszkałam w Warszawie było prosto. Tam jest sporo miejsc, gdzie można zasięgnąć fachowej porady. Teraz - przytyłam, mam problem z wrażliwością skóry - i zwyczajnie nie wiem co ze sobą począć.
Ale nie pomagają mi takie ironiczne artykuły. Tylko robią przykrość.
Brawo, Ewa! Nie daj sobie wmówić w żadnym razie, że ściskanie się jak kiedyś gorsetami, wychodzi komuś na zdrowie. Może wręcz doprowadzić do chronicznego niedotlenienia i chorób płuc, z braku prawidłowej ruchomości klatki piersiowej. Ciało może się dostosuje (teraz), ale po latach wystawi rachunek.
OdpowiedzUsuńI'm waiting for my first Ewa bra, but I've read a lot about her lingerie and other brands, because recently, I discovered this totally new world of bras that actually fit. I think what matters most in this situation is that there are still passionate designers like Ewa, who believe very strongly in what she does and that this actually changes the quality of life of women. And at the same time it is understandable that she desires to educate her customers, but this is for their good. I prefer being told straightforwardly rather than alqays see the smiling face of lingerie sales girls who used to tell me for a very long time that my 75F bra fits me well, whereas my size is 70GG or 70H. And maybe this also has to do with our roots (I'm Lithuanian, Ewa is Polish:))) We are rather frank and not as much diplomatic as the British or the Americans..
OdpowiedzUsuńPani Ewo- prosze sie nie dziwic, ze klientki internetowe robia takie rzeczy. Ja nosze brytyjskie 65FF(bo sie nie lubie sciskac) wedlug Kalkulatora wyszlo mi 70E(mozliwe, ze z wieksza miska bo moj biust jest zwarty), ale w pewnym zielonogorskim sklepie z brafitingiem pani posluszcnie wreczyla mi Effuniaka w 65FF, nie miala zadnych uwag, gdy go na mnie zobaczyla i nie oponowala, gdy westchnelam, ze z tynmi chyba tez nie jestem kompatybilna ( bo mi sie wpijal w piersi od gory a przy wiekszej misce fiszbiny mialabym pod pachami a ja ie lubie)...
OdpowiedzUsuńNastepnym razem jak tam bede sprobuje 70, zaczne od E.
Wydaje mi sie, ze przyzwyczajone do zanizania rozmiarow obwodow w olbrzymiej wiekszosci marek i klientki i sprzedawczynie stracily zdolnosc trzezwego myslenia.
Moze powinna pani tlustym drukiem zaznaczyc, ze w zwzazku z tym, ze staniki sa scisle to rozmiar obwodu w wiekszosci przypadkow jest "realny" i rozmiar miski MUSI byc mniejszy niz przy tym zanizonym?
Pozdrawiam
Malgosia
It's quite alright and normal for elastic to leave some kind of a mark. Socks do afterall. It's there to support the bust, not to just rest on it. I get red marks all across my back and torso when I wear a size (US) 34! Yet my ribcage is 26 inches, MEASURED LOOSE! Now how is that even possible a band, which roughly measures 30 inches flat, 6 whole inches larger than my ribcage at it's loosest measurement, can still be leaving me red marks? Your fit methods are awful, and so is your demeanor. You cannot treat customers, whether past, current or future, the way that you do. The customer is always right - you are forgetting one VERY important point - when it comes to their comfort level. I suppose you know personally what that is? I do not think so.
OdpowiedzUsuńHey Ewa, don't forget the screen door on your submarine...
OdpowiedzUsuńThis is so sad... I do not live in the UK or US or Poland, I live in México and I am very confused. I have never had a properly fitting bra and there are no stores here. I want to order online but I just do not know what size to order because I do not know anymore exactly what way to measure and if I am doing it right :(
OdpowiedzUsuńBrilliant demonstration ! Thanks for enlightening me!
OdpowiedzUsuńBardzo interesujące. Pozdrawiam serdecznie.
OdpowiedzUsuńMiałam kupić coś u Ewy, ale mi się odechciało po tym artykule... Nie zasługujesz na polecenia na Reddicie.
OdpowiedzUsuń